00:00It starts with a naive, unrealistic goal. Yeah. And then you break it down and figure out how you make it happen. How do you keep going for 70? Like what's the motivation there? My lowest point was after 28 hours where I still had 70 km. The [music] only thing that actually kept me going was I didn't want to let the team down. I couldn't feel my toes for 5 months after. Yeah. It took me my body [music] 3 months to recover and I think the project took it took me mentally 2 years to recover. You can't go hard for a certain amount of time but there is a there is a bill that needs to be paid on the other side.

00:46Welcome welcome to a uh CRM podcast. Uh we're very thrilled to have you and uh it's a special pleasure for me because uh I I usually do these interviews but I've never done it with a friend before. So um we'll have to balance the uh the the the friendship and the professional questions. But for sure I look forward to it.

01:11I'll start with uh maybe the biggest question of all. What do people think when you say you want to play for the national team? Um, I think people do what I just did last a bit because it's a it's an extreme goal to to set for yourself when you're 33 and in my now 35. Yeah. But for me with this project, it's really to to just go for the ultimate dream, which has always been to to play for the Danish national team. And and I usually say when I do speaks or whatever that that we should set no limits for ourselves and the most common limit that we often set without thinking about it is goals, realistic goals. Yeah.

01:57Because realistic goals doesn't force you to think differently, do things differently. Uh and that's why in my case now I live in Brazil, you know, playing trying to play football there because overall you when you have the ultimate goal you at least what I've done in this project I backtrack from there in terms of what what will it take to play for the national team and most people would say why why are you not playing in Denmark but when you look at it you see there are no national team players playing in Denmark. That's right.

02:26So that's then you go on from there. Yeah. And um for me that's you know the only way you can figure out how far you can make it is to to set the ultimate goal. Yeah. And I don't think there is a further goal within football than than playing at the at the World Cup at the highest level. Probably not. Um so that's obviously it's extreme and I don't expect people to I know people think it's crazy but that's what it takes sometimes, right?

02:56That's that's you know the the most It starts with a naive, unrealistic goal. Yeah. And then you break it down and figure out how you make it happen. Yeah. And I think it goes to it's the same in business. You have an unrealistic expectation or or vision of what you can achieve and what you want to do. Yeah. And then you figure out the way without knowing. You sort of explore the way on the, you know, explore the path as you're going. Right. and and the as I say that the bigger the goals you set the more challenging it is for yourself as well. Yeah.

03:30So um it's not easy but that's how it is. It's definitely not easy but it's also not the first time that you're doing something that's not easy. No, it's not the first time that you're doing something that people would refer to as crazy. Yeah. Um and uh I guess for everybody listening in um I've known you my entire life. I I honestly can't remember a day on Earth that where you haven't been a part of my life in some way or the other. Um, but when was it that you sort of decided to maybe backtrack a little bit that you wanted to pursue these crazy dreams? Because you've always been very ambitious. You've always been very competitive and and uh yeah, just sort of driven about your goals when to to do

04:15things like pursuing the national team or before that the Iceman. What when did when did that come to fruition? I think it started after I had done all the things you're supposed to do in terms of getting a good education, five years at Copenhagen Business School, have a good job as a management consultant. And I did those things because I didn't believe that I could pursue my my biggest dreams. Uh being a football player when I was a teenager, starting my own business in my early 20s.

04:46Uh I wasn't the most talented football player and I didn't have the business idea. And so so those became when you don't have belief from the outside, you really need to find that within yourself. And I didn't have that at the time. So I I did I made the safe choice and put in some way you can say it in in when you look back it's arbitrary goals in terms of getting into the most prestigious. Sure.

05:12Because you know international business in in in Copenhagen the and getting a prestigious job because that's when you're competitive that's then it goals that nobody nobody questions whether you should do that or not. Right. And I think so that became that became the reason for for going that path. And then in the end you know I completed uh my masters in applied economics and finance with with zero interest in those fields you know and did good nonetheless.

05:44Did good. Yeah of course and uh had had a prestigious job and then I realized okay what what's next and there's there was nothing more I could add to my plan B you know because that's sort of what you you think you have to have something to fall back on. Um and then I started my own company which has which had been my dream all of this uh time. And then what was the biggest learning from that from starting your own business so early? [sighs] I think the biggest lesson is that you don't need an education to start a business because you'll learn Yeah. You'll learn what you need to learn. Yeah. And you don't need experience. No.

06:27I think that's that's what hold people back often times is that you think you need to get certain amount of money, certain amount of experience, certain amount of network, but in the end it's just going out and doing like you are in a business. Yeah. You start from where you are regardless of where that is. Yeah. Uh and I think the younger you are the more willingness you have to take risk to just do it and you're not thinking so much in in terms of Yeah. uh worst case scenarios, you know, downside of it. And um so I think in the end that's that's that that was the biggest lesson. And then you realize as well that all the plan B's Yeah.

07:09arrive when you actually pursue plan A your biggest goal because so many opportunities have you know come after I started doing pursuing project Iceman and now football as well. So you don't realize all the opportunities that are actually lying towards where you really want to go. There's also a fine balance between uh I always say between risk and uncertainty because there's a lot of uncertainty when you want to start your own business. Will we make it what does make it even define? What does that mean? Um all the stuff like that. And then there's actual risk of potentially setting yourself up for bankruptcy or you know if if you have a family obviously going out starting something that might not work out can affect other people then there's a lot of risk involved but when you're

08:00young like you were what's the biggest risk you could always go back to your studies you could always I mean so so there was a lot of uncertainty but actually relatively little risk regards to especially at least in Denmark. Yeah. In I I say like when we talk about worst case scenarios that are they are you know when you look at from a global perspective they are not really worst case scenarios. No.

08:22You know I I you can get government's funding for starting your own business which I did in my case. You can get money for not working. Yeah. You could get money for studying. Yeah. So what is really the worst case scenario? Yeah. Why um when when you decided to do the Iceman, why was it the Iceman? Because there's so many crazy challenges you can go ahead with. Yeah.

08:49And again, you've always been into sports, but it's not because you were some sort of pro triathlete in any way. No. Um so, so, so why why the why the Iceman? I think it was a combination of um several things. First of all, I was starting a a training platform where I wanted to utilize AI. This was way before they became the password, dude. This was in 17 trends setter.

09:15Yeah. Yeah. So, uh but I wanted to utilize the training data that you collect to make more uh science-based training programs instead of you know in the old days at least and still today you go out and get if you go to three different people you will get three different programs. So, what is actually best for you? Yeah, that was the idea and uh I was starting to do that with Iron Man triathletes. I had done one iron man in 16. That was my only experience.

09:40Uh because they generate a lot of consistent data over a long period of time. So that was sort of the the I saw as the as the best way to start it. Yeah. And then I thought what could I do within the the sport to sort of build a stronger resume to you know as a marketing Yeah. uh stunt or whatever you could say as well.

09:59Yeah. And then I watched a documentary about a Danish guy called Nick Jacobsen, one of the best kite surfers in the world. Mhm. But instead of him focusing on becoming the world champion, he was focused more on his own like pushing his own boundaries. Yeah. And in this documentary was about him jumping off the bush after the sevenstar hotel in Dubai. Yeah.

10:19211 meters above se on a kite, you know, a kite surfing. I know kite surfing is usually what takes place on water. Yeah. Or you can make three jumps. That's an insane thing to do and he manages to do it. And for me, I realized that within the sport of triathon, whether you're an amateur or a professional, everybody like the pinnacle of the sport is the world championships in Hawaii, Kona, at the time at least where you're up against everybody. So, you know, and I thought, okay, I could spend five years maybe to try to become one of the best in the world. Yeah, in the end it comes down to one day where a lot of things could go right, but a lot of things could go wrong as well.

10:57I could have a bad stomach puncture or whatever. And maybe you would end up in top 10, which is, you know, incredible. Top three even, right? Yeah. But like you even if you're world champion, you're only world champion for one year, right? Yeah. And nobody remembers number four or number five. No. Compared to do something nobody has ever done before because that title can't be taken away from you, right? where you only are competing against yourself. And then for some reason the first idea I had was whether an Iron Man had been completed in all continents because I could be the first person to build on a new continent and this was in 17 so I was way you know there was already established races on all the six regular continents and then Antarctica was the only one remaining. Yeah.

11:36And then the crazy idea was was there and then it started from there. But as you say without having I had one done one Iron Man, right? I was an amateur. Had no experience with cold water or the cold or extreme sport of that kind. Had no clue what an Arctica was. No. Um but what it triggered what triggered for me was when I started sharing about this idea just as when you ask what do people think about when you want to play for the national team.

12:07Yeah. People said you know it was impossible. You can't swim 4 km in ice water. You can't bike there. I was just an amateur. I'd never been. And even though it was valid points, it came from people that had no experience themselves. Yeah. And that so the purpose became uh the whole message that limitations our own other people's perception of what's possible.

12:27Yeah. And I realized that I had lived my entire life following other people's perceptions of what I could or couldn't do. So that became the reason and purpose of doing it. Not because I'm not passionate about triathon. I hate the cult but it's it became a way to show what I believe in and in the end also to myself and then inspiring others.

12:51Yeah. How how critical do you think the uh the naivity was in terms of again you you you you say it a lot you you had no experience no with triathon or at least very little with the cold. You didn't know about Antarctica. Um, how much do you actually think that helped you in terms of completing it? Because maybe if you knew all the things then you would also think that's impossible. That's crazy.

13:22So, so how how Yeah, I I guess it's sort of similar to to when you mentioned you started your business. You you had no experience. You didn't have the the education at that time. All this stuff like that. But again, just jumping like just doing it basically. I think it's it's it helps you because as you say the less you know the better actually because you you not pre-predicting what what can go wrong all the challenges you just take them one at a time. Yeah.

13:51And I think that's that's why it's often times an advantage to start you know young because it becomes your mind is perceive you know your mind is the way we we're designed as humans is it wants to protect yourself. Yeah. And not you know challenge yourself face discomfort and all this. So it will start to predict everything that can go wrong and why it won't work.

14:15Yeah. Uh but in the end for me with this part is you make a decision initially saying that this is going to work. This is going to work. Yeah. It's not a question of whether it's possible. It's only a question of how you make it how we make it possible. And then when that is your mindset you you just have to overcome any challenge that that's that comes at at you. And often times the challenges that you can well that's basically a good thing that you can't predict all the challenges. Yeah.

14:42And and in my case even when you're there doing the Iceman when you're the first person in the world to ever do something. Yeah. You have a lot of lessons when you're doing it but you can use the lessons for anything because you have to deal with it in the situation. Yeah. And that comes down to small details as you know swallowing too much salt water so you start puking after 500 meters. Your goggles freeze after 1500 meters so you can only see shades. Yeah.

15:11And that's you know only maybe one or two% of the whole thing. Right. So so it's it's even from the get-go it's it's difficult but you just with the lessons that you've had just take one challenge at a time and then keep going. what kept you going when you were at sort of the most difficult positions during the Iceman because I' so I've I've seen the documentary obviously many times and uh spoken with you a lot about it and um for the people who are not familiar with it you were you were doing and doing you were doing it for what 72 hours something like that 72 hours and 64 minutes how do you keep going 470. Like what's the motivation there? Because there's got to be more than just wanting to prove people wrong when you can't see the water in front of you.

16:03Yeah. I mean, in the end, it's not um it's not other people or what you want to prove that keeps you going. I think my lowest point was after 28 hours uh where I still had 70 km to go on the bike and a marathon. Yeah. And you were completely exhaust physically and mentally. I hadn't slept. So, you get to a very dark place and I think the only thing that actually kept me going was I didn't want to let the team down. Yeah.

16:32Because we had gotten so far and even though you see me do it physically, the team had to Yeah. We talked afterwards that each person on the team went through their own eyesman to make it happen, right? Yeah. because they basically had in the beginning like everybody was on for the first 14 15 hours and you can imagine when you're outside on the glacier and they had to you know it's physical work as well for them and then after that only it was 4 hours off 2 hours on and then that goes on forever.

16:59Yeah. They were they were completely exhausted as well and so for me that was it was the team that kept me going in terms of I didn't want to let them down in terms of how far we had come. Um because in the end you don't really care about what other might think or not when you're in it in the you know it's too tough. Yeah. Yeah.

17:20And that's why I think in the end no matter what we do in the end is the people that we do it with. Yeah. Um and how you pull through together. Yeah. What um reflecting back, what is the biggest life lesson leading up to the Iceman that you used to get through the Iceman? And that can be the physical race or it can be all the the operational stuff around completing the Iceman because that was that was an Iceman in itself just making everything practically fall into place.

17:54Yeah. But but when you reflect back, is there a certain core memory from child or a lesson learned in school or through sports or whatever where you sort of think th this was this was an an insight or a a knowledge point that I could use to get me through? I think the main lesson I've had is that you think belief is something you get or something you get from others. because I wanted people to believe I could become a football player. I wanted to people to believe I could start my own business.

18:30But in the end, belief starts with yourself. Yeah. And then that it's an a decision. You decide to believe in yourself and you decide that it's possible even before you know whether it is. And the most when I did the first video that you see in the film as well, it's still on YouTube where I say I'm going to do this. I had done one ice swim 100 meters.

18:51That was my only experience. I had no experience. But I said I was going to do this and then I decided that whenever people ask me like you do now whether I have any doubt whether I can or I'm just going to say no. So I'd already already made that decision and what's interesting for me looking back now. So when I was on live national television in I don't know if it's a show or whatever it's called Guen you know and yes sto asked me live television do you do you have any doubt whether this is possible or not I just immediately answered no and then no further yeah questions. Yeah.

19:26And I think that has a subconscious effect on yourself but also to others. And I think we we want others to believe in ourselves first and then we gain the belief. But belief starts with you believing in you and then it comes from others in the end. I would say that's my main uh that's been my main lesson. Uh because that's what I did wrong. You could say or what I didn't do when I was a kid and when I was a Yeah.

19:52a teenager. And then in the end your your stubborn naive belief that you can make it happen. Yeah. What was the darkest moment of the Iceman? Either the Iceman itself or I mean you prepped for a long time to make it happen also financially and training wise and stuff like that. as you said like as you said it's basically starting a business in a way because it's uh in my case you had the physical part but then you had to have the logistical part you have the financial part which are all big challenges of of of themselves. So you have many um like you do when you when you start a business or you're challenging yourself you have many low moments and many dark moments. Um and for me it it was during the Iceman

20:49it was uh after those 28 yeah hours 20 28 hours but then I had you know moments where I you know when I paid my first deposit for the exped like the the just sailing us there. Yeah like the team of 10 people was $100,000. Uh and when I paid the first deposit of 20 uh 20% I paid more than I had. I had to borrow money from my my brother. Yeah.

21:15And it was an unrefundable Yeah. So you sort of put that pressure Yeah. on yourself and um also had to go out and make loans in the end because I didn't get the sponsorships that I that I needed. Yeah. Um, but don't you think that eventually actually helped you completely 100% because there was no there was no right you have to make it happen. Yeah.

21:39And then you you you have to figure out how you make it happen. Yeah. Um but I think that the challenge often times is that at least in my project is that it's often a a you're a lot with yourself. It's a lonely journey. I didn't have a you know co co-founder or anything. So sometimes it is it is a challenge to do the things by yourself and um did you miss that having having a team? Yeah.

22:10Yeah 100%. I think that's the that is the like what for instance another chance was when we made the film and we had paid a production company $200,000 I think and we couldn't watch the eighth cut because it was not what we wanted. So we started over Yeah. We started from scratch only 30 days to the to the first premiere. Yeah.

22:36Uh me the director and one lead editor and we had no time to make the film. Yeah. And that was the hardest I've ever worked for anything. Yeah. Um harder than the Iceman. Harder than the Iceman. I did six all nighters in in 30 days. And we basically like this here. You can ask we were sitting on computers editing and then slept at the same place. Yeah.

22:56Because we were under such time pressure and it was the most it was horrible to be in but when you look back those were the best moments and the fact that you did it with you know with other people with other people and it's the same when we go back to the Iceman. I there's no way I could have completed the Iceman by myself. No.

23:14And I think in the end that's nobody else will understand what we went through on that glacier in Alactic Gas. Nobody understands what we went through in that edit edit editing, right? People just watch it on the big screen and it all works out. But this like the sacrifices and the the blood, sweat, and tears, literally tears you have to put in. Yeah.

23:34Is what connects you in a in a in a different way. And I think that's that's the that's why in the end the most important part of everything that we do is are the people around us and the team that we do it with and whether you're willing to walk the extra mile together and I think that was the advantage of I couldn't bring I couldn't pay the guys you know to go with me to Antarctica the at least the videographers and my brother.

23:59Yeah. So they were only there for one objective and that was for us to to to finish the Iceman. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that was what put us together and then um being aligned in terms of that overall mission and purpose. But it's it's it's it's an interesting point because when you set out to do something, whether it's a business or the Iceman or something like that, it's always with a goal in mind.

24:23Yeah. A goal in mind. But I but I think often times you're here reflecting back that it's actually the process that's you know the most given when you reflect back on on something you've done. You said you refer to it here. It wasn't completing the Iceman which was the goal and what ultimately drove you in like 3 years. Yeah.

24:47But reflecting back it was the celebration with the team and the experiences you received there. Similar to the editing, it wasn't just completing the editing. It was actually it was the the the hard work, the dedication, um the blood, sweat, and tears, the commodery, all those things. And I think that reflects into business as well. You're you're obviously always working towards reaching certain revenue target or headcount or whatever it is, but there will always be a new goal.

25:18Yeah. So if if you don't enjoy the process 100%. And then you know being in the process you know knowing why you go through the difficult time. Yeah. Uh for for the overall purpose that you that's why I think purpose overall is is the main thing that you know why you're heading towards the direction that you are. And then when you as you say when you look back it's not the highs that you cherish the most. It's actually the lows.

25:46Yeah. where you kept going and figure out how you kept going. Yeah. Um Yeah. Do you like yourself better this version than when you were management consultant? That's a good question. Yes. I think because I'm more authentic and true to myself. Yeah. And I think that's one of my favorite quotes is uh by Paulo Coelho. I believe it is that in the end it's not about becoming something. It's about unbecoming everything that really isn't you. Yeah. Because I feel that's been my process.

26:22You think you have to go, you know, go somewhere, be a specific kind of person. But now I'm actually more getting back to the core of who I am. Yeah. As a human being in a in a natural sense. And I've always been driven by, you know, challenges and and and challenging myself. So being more authentic with yourself and what it is that you want.

26:46So in that sense, I'd say yes, definitely. When you reflect back to when we go back to your current goal, making the national team 2026. Um that's soon. That's in 8 months or something like that. Does that pressure get to your head or do you stay still stay levelheaded and optimistic about actually reaching that goal? It uh I think in the end you can't focus on on the top of the mountain. You have to focus on the next step getting there.

27:24And I think if if you get too obsessed, you might not take the right decisions along the way. Yeah. At least Mike, I've not rushed into I'm not in it to just become a professional for the sake of becoming a professional. I'm I'm following what feels right. Yeah. For me and then you go for it until Yeah. You know, I'm not in control of what will happen in the in the end. No.

27:51Um you can only control the actions that you and the steps that you have in front of you. And for for me right now, it is to play professionally in Brazil. Yeah, that's the next step for me. So that's what I'm focusing on. Yeah. Um and as you say in the end, it is not about the destination. It's daring to go for the adventure and the journey that it takes to get there. Right.

28:13Yeah. And often times I think the challenge is that we want results right away. But often times the process is you know is not like that. You know you and you can't see the pro progress necessarily. It's not in my case it's not me measured in metrics that you can necessarily measure because it's also network based. It's skill based and it's difficult to to measure that and know how close are you right but what I do know is that everything can also change within an instant.

28:44Yeah. when you keep going, you know, then you could end up playing a charity match in Qatar with Aiden Hassad and Lar from one day to the next where a week before I was sleeping in bunk bunk beds with teenagers in Brazil. Yeah. On a on a on a try out in the middle of the jungle in uh in Brazilia. Right. So So that's that's the that's the challenge of pursuing an adventure that you have. There is a lot of uncertainty um and no certainty of when or how.

29:19Yeah. But the only certainty you have is that if you give up it won't happen, right? Yeah. Do you know when to quit? I think if you're putting your life on in jeopardy, then yes. Yeah. Um, I mean, but I mean I I guess it's for a lot of people chasing your dreams. It there's back to risk and uncertainty. There's also a fine line between continuously pursuing something and and and maybe knowing when to quit. Basically, like a professional athlete if you're playing playing football. But but to people who are chasing their dreams, when when would you know when to stop?

30:05is when it becomes unfun or is it when the risk gets too high or how how would you calculate whether or not to stop pursuing that dream and continue to chase it? That's a good question. When when do you quit? I think for me it's whether are you pursuing your goal for your own drive or is it for external Yeah. drivers. Yeah.

30:41Because for me if my body says stop then then my body says stop you know. Yeah. But it was like during the Iceman if if if I had to collapse then I would collapse and then that's a natural way that you Yeah. quit right. But we we called a timeout after 44 hours when I felt we were risking our lives during the storm. Yeah.

31:03Because I didn't want to jeopardize the life of the of the other crew team members. Right. Your own is secondary, but I could I could swim with less. That's okay. Yeah. Um but when do you quit? I think in the end it's what your what your um body tells you. Yeah. And and that's that's why for me stress is also a a fine balance to go into when when you because I was under a lot of stress making the Iceman happen. I was under a lot of stress and making the film happen. Yeah. But in the end it was for I knew why I was going through the stress. Yeah. If you don't have that then you're then you're pushing your body and your body doesn't necessarily know why. Yeah. And that's where you will go off track. Yeah. In my regards.

31:51So in the end it's whether you're doing the things for the right reasons for your personal reasons. Yeah. Like the goals I had before going to university getting good grades those were not my personal goals that those were just accepted yeah goals and I think I would I would have you know I would not have ended up in a good place pursuing that because it was not true to my nature.

32:18Yeah. Um and then in the end I think it's it's also uh accepting that if it doesn't happen that's okay. Yeah. You know I was with peace with the fact that if I didn't complete the Iceman that would be fine. When were you at peace with that because not when you put in the deposit. No no no after those 28 hours when you're in it and you you know Yeah.

32:39you're actually uh on the borderline of questioning how far you can take it because you're pushing yourself into unknown territory. And I'm doing the same in Brazil now. Yeah. But but I'm still here. I'm still healthy. And it's it's a journey of exploring yourself. And you learn so much about yourself of pursuing these extreme challenges, right? And I think as long as you're as long as it feels right. Yeah. Then it's the right thing to do.

33:07Um but then accepting if if if things change tomorrow for me, then then that's okay too. That's okay too. Yeah. Um and the and the su success criteria is not playing that game at the World Cup. It's daring to pursue. It's daring to go for it. It's the process. Yeah. Yeah. In the end because there are many things that we're not in control. We want to be in control of everything but in the end we are not in control of anything, right? You can't control externalities and in football you have to be chosen.

33:40There's a lot of external factors as well. Yeah. But that was the same in in Alactica. I had to get an authorization. I was depending on on a team. I was depending a lot of external things. Right. The weather. The weather. I mean Yeah. Yeah. You sort of have to deal with the situation that you're in. Yeah. So when do you quit? I think when when you that's when it becomes a a health aspect. I would I would say you know I'm I'm still pursuing this even though it's challenging. I feel I'm becoming a better version of myself physically and mentally. Yeah, in that process, how do you look for better? How do you look for you becoming a better version?

34:19Because to all the people running businesses or wanting to start businesses, I would assume it would be the same thing. If your health comes into to play or at risk, you really have to look at it twice in order to to assess should we continue this or not. But but h how do you assess whether or not you are becoming a better person or if it's actually you know risking risking your health?

34:46Well, first of all, I've said the principles in terms of how I train and my priorities and what I do on a daily basis which I think should be applied to to all aspects is that you know I have 10 uh physical principles. Mhm. And football is number 10. Okay. So in order to become the best football player first I need to sleep. Yeah.

35:05Good. That's number one. Number two is nature, I believe. Like getting into nature, getting sunlight. Yeah. Then it's nutrition, what I eat, and then you Yeah. Take it down from there. So when I train, I'm the best. Yeah. I' I've put up the best foundation. Yeah. To to move myself. And I think we have we thinking the other way around usually from the past at least also with work is that we we you know the first thing we compromise on is sleep. Yeah. The second is what we eat. Yeah.

35:41Because the more tired we are the the the more difficult it is for us to make good decisions. So that affects how we sleep. And then that's affect you know also quality time with you know Yeah. people that we care about, how we actually nurture ourselves. Yeah. Um, so that's why I've I've flipped that around. But for me it is sleep would be number one for me also whatever I'm doing also in businesses and you know I think that that applies to all of us because to be the best version of yourself you need to prioritize what that takes.

36:12Yeah. Um, which is also about compromises in general because you can also, you know, make a case for there. There's no substitute for hard work in terms of what you're trying to do becoming a footballer. You need to put in a certain amount of input. You can't skip training. There's no working around it. Unless you're more talented than everybody else wanting to play football. True.

36:39You have to train at least as hard as them. But I would say it's not about hard work, it's about smart work. Because you can also train a lot. Yeah. You know, if you could run, if I trained for 5 hours a day, that would not make me better because that would break my body down. Like the only way we actually grow and improve physically and mentally is when we sleep. Repair only happens when you sleep. Yeah.

37:02And I think often times we think that if we're just just there, if we just show up, that's enough. Yeah. But for me, I've come to learn that uh famous NBA quote like Kobe Bryce is not about the number of hours you train, it's about the number of hours your mind is present during the training. Yeah. And in the end, that's been the switch for me. It's not about the hours, it's about the quality of those and being 100% present in what you do.

37:29Yeah. because that's really where you can move the needle in terms of in my case football becoming a better like technically skilled and all this. It's it's it's also what happens in your brain. Yeah. Um and that requires energy as well. Yeah. So for me, but but but what what what sells well on you know social media is the David Gargens the you know all these hard work just power through and that might work for some people but that's where you run out of battery in it could be in some cases at least.

38:12It's interesting to hear because you are very much a guy yourself that has powered through. Yes. Speaking of running an iron man for for 72 or at least a triathon for 72 hours. So So you can power through. True. But I couldn't feel my f toes for 5 months after. Took me my body 3 months to recover. And I think the project took it took me mentally two years to recover.

38:35Yeah. And that's why I say usually you you can go hard for a certain amount of time. Yeah. But there is a there is a bill that needs to be paid on the other side and your recovery phase might be as long as as the you know the phase before. So yes, you can but it's not you can't do it for forever. You know, you need time to rest. You need time to to uh and I think we live in a world where it's more stimuli. Yeah. Right. And your brain needs silence.

39:08Would you do it again? The Icebin, I would do it again. I will not do it again. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, I would because uh it has taken me to where I am now. Yeah. And um so absolutely. It's been it's been an adventure and I've met some of the best people Yeah. I know now along the journey coming back to you know Yeah. the saying is that it's not about the it's not about the destination. is not about the journey, it's about the people in the end.

39:37Um, so absolutely. Yeah. Knowing it was about or now knowing that it's about the people, have you making sure to surround yourself with the necessary people to achieve your next next goal, which is the World Cup goal? That's that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's difficult, of course. Yeah. But um trying to find people that that can, you know, help you get to where you want to go. Yeah.

40:11Or and then you find different types of, you know, trainers or players or people that help with all the other nine aspects that I've talked about. Um, but it is it is like I would say that the more the bigger the the challenge, the less people perhaps. Yeah. So that's that's I think that's been my biggest challenge to find in in the end you find people that you aligned in terms of not who you are but in terms of mindset right you you need to work with people that also don't set limits and figure out how how do we make it happen right and then I've tried to find the best people across the know I have an incredible uh trainer in in in Brazil yeah in terms of the technical aspect and then you work on from Yeah, but it is a challenge.

41:01Uh, but I usually say that you don't find the right people, the right people find you. Um, along the way. Mhm. Do you already know what your next goal is? I think Well, I think first of talking about Rick, I think it will take uh a year. Yeah. So, after this one, because I went straight from paying the bill from from Yeah. From from from Iceman to making the film to then to football.

41:26Yeah. But at the thing after that, yeah, for sure I have I have many goals. Yeah. Uh making music is one. Okay. Uh but also we talked about before this, you know, supplements. So like doing things that are, you know, businesses. Um so yeah, I have many goals afterwards, but but not right now. I'm just focused on this one.

41:49Do you think the business aspect aspect of what it is that you do? For instance, the Iron Man, the financial part, logistics part. Now, you just briefly mentioned the supplements as well. Is that as fun as doing I guess the physical part of the challenges that you do such as the ice man or a football now? Do you enjoy the business part just as much or?

42:10Yeah, I think so because in the end for me at least it's about problem solving and how you break problems down. So, and and that's the advantage of coming from I'm not an athlete. I I come from a business background so and come from a consulting background. So I approach everything from you know how do you map you know the problem the problem. So for me it's for football it's been how do you become the best player what are those that's the tact technical tactical physical and mental and then the commercial you could say and then you break those down.

42:39Yeah. Um, and it's the same I did with, you know, how do you learn Portuguese in three months? You know, you break it down from a from a from a problem point of view and figure out how can you Yeah. solve that. And I think that's that's the fun for me uh in terms of figure out you you there are there are thousand things you can do, but how do you figure out what is the potentially the most impactful thing you can do?

43:06Like when I went uh six months ago when I released the the video. Yeah. In Brazil where I said why I'm in Brazil that I needed the Brazilians help. Yeah. Which went went viral and my you know social media following is now bigger in Brazil than anywhere else from one video, right? Yeah. So figure out what are the what are the So you made more videos like that. Yeah.

43:26Yeah. You know, exactly. You figure out what are the because often times we focus on Yeah. tasks that are not necessarily could be gamechanging have big impact. Yeah. And and for me it's breaking down because when when you're in my case pretty much a soulman team, you have you can't do you can do anything but you can't do uh everything at the same time, right? Yeah.

43:48So you have to prioritize what are the what could be potentially gamechanging um opportunities and it's the same you know I'm trying to find a path within football that doesn't exist right. Yeah. So it is trial and error as well. Yeah. Um but you focus on on what you think can move the needle the furthest right. Yeah. Um we are almost at the end.

44:22Yeah. But um we've been around so many crucial points I would say and uh I think if the person listening to this I would I would find it difficult to actually think what should I do tomorrow in order to better myself. So I always want to sort of boil things down to what I would call actionable insights. Yeah. So to anybody who will listen or see this, what is one or two actional insights that you want them to take with them to actually apply and do differently tomorrow?

45:06The first thing I would do is to in terms of belief and what you want to achieve decide that it is possible for you. I think that's where it starts. Yeah. Deciding for yourself getting aware of often times the limits that we set are only in our own mind. M so becoming aware of that and then from then on what I usually say is taking the easiest next step that you can take towards that um and making it as simple as possible for yourself to to get moving and get going because often times the we are motivated by the thought of becom you know going to the gym working out when we get to the action that's the difficult Yeah. Uh so the the the game changing aspect is to just make it as easy for you as possible to take the first step. Yeah.

46:05Uh because each you know one realistic step at a time you can that's how I you know achieved the Iceman. Um and then knowing that often times setbacks or failures are the most important experiences for learning and progress. Yeah. I think those are the for me it's all about perspective and how you turn things positive. Mhm.

46:36Because in the end you're your your only competition and enemy is your own mind. So that's what you need to work with and it that's I think we we we hope that it's a you get to a point where it's you know it just you don't have to but I I'm struggling with that every day as well. Yeah. It it never ends. No, it's continuous process.

46:55Yeah. Uh and the more you challenge yourself the more difficult it will be the more doubt you will have all of those things but accept it as a natural part of challenging yourself and going where you want to go. And then in the end, it's just breaking things down. Well, there you have it. Believe in yourself and then taking the easiest next step.

47:18Before we uh round off completely, Annas, uh we have our famous lightning round where I ask you a question and you just answer right away and then we'll move on to the next one. All right. Okay. You ready for that? Yes. Okay. Written them down here. First one is, what is the best piece of advice that you have ever been given?

47:41No equals next opportunity. What's your most used app? Instagram, unfortunately. What is your best habit? Prioritize in my sleep. What's the best thing that you've ever bought for $200 or less? A seek discomfort t-shirt. And to to to explain that because those were the you know that was the brand of the YouTube group I ended up making the documentary with.

48:13Yeah. And uh he called me on a FaceTime and I had just done a speak at a high school and I that was the only p piece of clothing I bought within two years. So that was the best investment. Well, the RORI was pretty good on that one. Yeah. Um, what's the best investment you've made uh both either physically or you know mentally?

48:34Investing in myself. Yeah. In what way? Betting on myself. Betting on yourself. Yeah. Okay. And uh what's the best advice for someone who wants to go down their own road to growth? Take the jump. Just take the jump. Don't think. Yeah. Your your mind will hold you back. It's just 3 2 1 go. Annas, we have 10 seconds left. So, uh, thank you, my friend. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much. It was good having you.

49:21Forecess home. very sure, Instagram, Tik Tok or YouTube